“When knowledge is weaponized, it is made opaque and useless, and the human race suffers. Modern Consumer Yoga is responsible for Weaponizing Yoga.”
“When one attacks or destroys the knowledge of something, this may be called “epistemic violence.” — Baba Rampuri
Conversation of May 16, 2015:John Weddepohl Marie – yes very. The man is making a judgement. He has a very studied approach and his judgement given his background is sound. I disagree only in his acknowledging Krishnamacharya and Samkhya. Krishnamacharya is the bedrock of yoga in the west, the guru of all the teachers who represent what we understand as yoga. What we think of as yoga starts and ends with him.
But yoga existed way before Krishnamacharya. What is currently happening may indeed not be what Mr Krishnamacharya intended.
But these guys – his students – Iyengar, Jois and countless others and their followers and ourselves have ignorantly taken what they taught us to be yoga. Of course when the word yoga is understood our western equivalent and understanding of yoga is way off. Far out man!! Have another hit of bliss, stand on your head. This Bhoga is not yoga.
Gideon Enz Most of the yoga that I learned did NOT come from the lineage of Krishnamacharya.
But I agree that his lineages represent the major face of yoga in the West. I am glad that people are beginning to realize that. Though the elaborate postural sequences characteristic of vinyasa and the precise physical arrangements of Iyengar’s yoga are derivations of Krishnamacharya’s methods, the tradition of using postures as accompaniments to yoga practice dates back many hundreds of years. Vik’s article is pretty much right on, though.
There is much more to yoga than MPY, and people are beginning to see that. My question is: What’s next?
Todd Daniels I think it may have more to do with his students than him..I have studied a fair amount with AG Mohan and Desikashar and their approach is very different than Jois and Iyengar…hard to say. Hey, do you have any one you would highly recommend to learn the real deal from?? cheersGideon Enz That depends upon what you mean by “the real deal”…
Todd Daniels I really cannot answer that with any confidence
Humphrey Barclay K taught different styles not only as suited the recipient(s) as is often said – but also as enabled him to make a living as a professional yoga teacher – which he was. There’s quite a lot of distortion and omission as a result, not helped by he and his disciples being orthodox Brahmins. This has filtered through to the more widespread “lineages” of today.
John Weddepohl Baba Rampuri I think you are being quoted here?
Weaponization of Yoga
Baba Rampuri Thank you, John Weddepohl. Krishnamacharya may very well have been a founding father of Modern Consumer Yoga (read “corporate yoga”). His biographies, written by his publicists, have been vastly overstated. And when we have to choose among businessmen like Jois, Iyengar, and such, when we a 1000’s of years of culture that has produced many of the greatest thinkers, articulators, and initiators in the history of mankind, I can only consider this mind-blowing.
But, I believe the results of the “consumer yoga hypocrisy” are being understated. If we were’t in a civilizational crisis, as I believe we are, this would be a footnote.
In the past few weeks, James Risen has published a book & a front page New York Times article about the weaponization of psychology, how the American Psychological Association has assisted and legitimized torture and related human behaviour experiments (remember Dr. Mengele).
Two years ago, the eminent anthropologist Marshall Sahlins resigned from the prestigious National Academy of Science protesting the collaboration of the Anthropologists with the U.S. Military.
Anthropologist David Price, the author of “Weaponizing Anthropology”,
Anthropologist David Price, the author of “Weaponizing Anthropology”,
Anthropologist David Price, the author of “Weaponizing Anthropology”,describes this damage to the soul of a nation and the world, as he does its assault on the integrity of science.
On May 9, the NYT front page article on Russia’s Victory Day (over the Nazis in WW II), began with (I may be paraphrasing) “According to the Russian version of history…” and in this innocuous statement the NYT has turned all known history on its head (like being a holocaust denier).
All of this and much more is the blatant weaponising of the human sciences, reinforcing a point I have been making for years that the human sciences have always been a tool for one sort or another of colonial domination and control and for the benefit of the few, the greediest, bloodiest, and most aggressive.
When knowledge is weaponised, it is made opaque and useless, and the human race suffers. Modern Consumer Yoga is the Weaponising of Yoga.
What strikes me the most is that there are so-oo many sincere people with the desire and potential to effect conscious change or at least conscious resistance to the human crisis that has now engulfed most of the planet, and it is this large group that is first targeted to be the leaders of exactly the opposite. The resistance to ignorance has been bought out.
In a previous comment, it is asked where to find the real deal. I would suggest since you are already on John Weddepohl’s page, you might just start with John, an amazing man and teacher, who knows all about what I am writing and much, much more!
Lilia Kader All knowledge is traditionally weaponised. We may refer to Kali Yuga and resistance is futile pretty much like symptomatic treatment of psychosomatic disorders with paracetamol.
But even treating this with yoga tools is missing the point.
Because yoga is union with universe, not with some disease.
I think situation is helpless. To whom addressed is yoga? There is consumer society, it can only consume by definition. On the other hand there is a handful of subjects who can “slice n dice” and ultimately yoga gets weaponised.
Humphrey Barclay You could say techniques get distorted and weaponised but the truth is as it ever was. Kali Yuga is chaotic and destructive, but it is also said that during this period the Goddess is very “awake” and spiritual practice bears fruit, not “easily”, but the veils are permeable.
Ekabhumi Charles Ellik Baba Rampuri, may I cross-post this point into the discussion occurring on my own page?
Baba Rampuri Please do. I think this is an important conversation, and I hope even more people will comment and offer their opinions.
Baba Rampuri An “episteme” is an item of knowledge. When one attacks or destroys the knowledge of something, this may be called “epistemic violence.” An example (and there are numerous others): Corporate brand names, such as “ashtanga yoga” – which obviously refer to Patanjali’s “ashtanga yoga,” ignore and pervert Patanjali’s meaning, in this case his first of the 8 (ashta) limbs (anga), establishing truth and non-violence as the foundation of the yoga practice, and as such, commit epistemic violence to the very knowledge we seem to seek. Worse, this projects a modern capitalist view of self-interested, even selfish, behaviour on both humanity and the rest of the natural world, supporting the very paradigm to which Yoga, as some of us know it, is the antidote. The result is not only furthering our ignorance, rather than removing it (as is the path of higher consciousness), but it is the most effective attack to date on the wisdom and sustainability of Indian culture, so that it may be a docile colony of the modern warfare state.
John Weddepohl If any of you missed a post I made earlier I think a read of our dear friend Babajis comment above re the article i posted – is profound and worth reading. You may find Baba’s comment of serious interest with or without yoga. We are as a collective humanity in a curious time. Thank you Baba for your thoughts and elucidation on an intriguing subject.
Todd Daniels See, now this is what I want people talking about. Thanks everyone for your insight.
Eveline Kaner sincere thanks for all these comments.
Lyns N Pace Powerful and overwhelming. Thank you for sharing Baba and John
Ekabhumi Charles Ellik Before You Buy That Rothko…How the CIA Covertly Nurtured Modern Art as a Cold War “Weapon”
John Weddepohl Spot on Ekabhumi –
John Weddepohl Re Baba’s compliment – the truth is any knowledge I may have picked up It is only through the grace of my teachers.
Alex Saunders Yoga is like pizza is … I mean, they may call it a pizza, but is it really? Answer depends on one’s experience of pizza. Maybe you are already the pizza baked any which way.
Todd Daniels Blammo! Thank Baba Rampuri.
Todd Daniels Baba, may I use or share what you said?? thanks
Baba Rampuri Todd, yes, please do. Think of it as an ongoing conversation. With love & light!
Baba Rampuri Alex, what happens when we call “ice cream” “pizza?” There are repercussions that go beyond both.
Ekabhumi Charles Ellik Wonderful book, for those who are curious, called “The Body Adorned” shows how art, even the sacred art of India, has been used as propaganda for as long as there has been state-sponsored art.
The Body Adorned: Sacred and Profane in Indian Art
The sensuous human form-elegant and eye-catching-is…
Baba Rampuri John, I believe you get grace from your teachers when you earn it. Goddess bless you!
Todd Daniels Thanks Baba!
Todd Daniels Any of you guys ever come to Canada let me know
Chris Whelan Yes, most western yoga is not the 5000yr old tradition, but what this author is saying is “if you don’t know how to bake bread, then you shouldn’t eat bread”. We do not all have the circumstances to immerse ourselves in life-long study of Hinduism, so it sounds like we are not allowed to benefit from those portions that are accessible. Or “If you can’t finish the pizza, then don’t even think about having a slice”.
Gideon Enz I think the larger purpose is to inquire as to the state of things and then determine where to go with what we have.
John Weddepohl Chris its perhaps all about getting the real deal – if I am being told I am eating pizza but what I am getting is chapatti dressed up as pizza then I my understanding of pizza is never going to be complete. I may never know pizza because to me conditioned to think of it as chappatti my ignorance of pizza is all that is complete. i.e. complete ignorance as opposed to complete knowledge. The difference is subtle but that is how knowledge and truth about knowledge works. Our ignorance is further compounded by our conditioning thinking Yoga is hinduism – it is not.
Todd Daniels some hindu swami’s with huge organizations sure think it is…winkwink
Baba Rampuri It’s a breadwinner, excuse me, a chapati winner. And I think you are making a major point there, Todd. If it didn’t benefit them financially – the capitalist model of self-interest and greed – Modern Consumer Yoga would not enter into the agendas of “some hindu swamis with huge organizations.” This is what clearly marks the spread of consumer yoga. This capitalist model is not the natural human condition, but a system of social engineering that privileges the very few, and depends on a lot of marketing.
Todd Daniels well said
Baba Rampuri Chris Whelan, I don’t think the author intended that at all. It would probably be closer to say, “If you don’t know how to bake bread, then don’t teach others how to bake bread, claiming the authority of knowing how to bake bread.” I would think that he considers you, who take the bread baking course, to be victims of a fraud, rather than imposing any restrictions on you eating anything you want. You are interpreting analysis & strategies to be moral prescriptions. Hinduism, whatever we interpret that to be, has nothing to do with this.
Like · Reply · 10 · May 18 at 10:44am
Chris Whelan John Weddopohl this is a nice analogy. However I also think that one can enjoy chapati dressed up as pizza anyway, but to Baba Rampuri’s point, it would be better if we knew it wasn’t actually real pizza when we ate it. In any case, the article does not convey to me any credit to the positive impact of “non-true” yoga. There are many paths by the same name, and one cannot own a name, even if it came before all others.
Yoga and Marketing – The Brand
Todd Daniels I do not call soccer, knitting…Today, most modern “yoga” classes are just stretching, so maybe they should be called stretching. There are numerous benefits to stretching, nobody will deny that.
Michelle Synnestvedt I refer to it as “sweating and stretching in Sanskrit”
Baba Rampuri Stretching is indeed good for you, there are numerous benefits. But, how can you sell stretching? You need a brand. How about an exotic brand?
Like · Reply · 10 · May 18 at 10:59pm
Todd Daniels yes indeed. an exotic word that you can sell as having some kind of spiritual component and make up anything and people will just believe it and will even fight in order to not let their illusions be shattered…oh joy
Baba Rampuri You’re on to something there. How about “Coca-Cola?” No, someone’s taken that one.
Todd Daniels Karma Cola, Marketing the mystic east… I highly recommend it.
John Weddepohl Pizza –
Devi Bhakta Gita Mehta … she’s produced a number of excellent books, of which Karma Cola is probably the most enduring. She hasn’t published anything new in 10 or 15 years, which is a shame. She’s a brilliant prose stylist.
Todd Daniels Ya, I really liked it. made some valid points and was beautifully written
Eric Seaton Damn Baba sounding fucking sharp.
Eric Seaton Baba Rampuri really proves Wu Tang clans comment of speech “Cut in half, twice as strong”. When I read what he writes , it’s like skates cutting across ice. Every phrase is so short and it just cuts through. Really unreal, thank Goddess there’s a few shamans still around.
Vik Zutshi This is an interesting discussion. Thanks Baba Rampuri for bringing my attention to this post. As the writer of the article, I admit I am being judgemental about prevailing ‘yoga studies’ in the West, that is the way Op-Eds are written, and precisely why it’s called an ‘Opinion piece’. Very seldom does one find a minority voice in America questioning (and berating) the dominant view, with the same sense of entitlement and authority that the majority uses to appropriate and repackage indigenous wisdom traditions. Yes I feel entitled to speak with authority about a tradition that has been an integral part of my family heritage for over a thousand years. I still maintain that Krishnamacharya was a genuine teacher and that Asana has been an integral part of Yoga for thousands of years (though not necessary for all aspirants). Only now are ancient texts being translated that describe hundreds of postures in detail. More than thirty million Sanskrit texts – pertaining to different areas of Indic thought – remain untranslated. It is my life’s mission to ensure these texts are documented and translated before I pass away. I have written about Indic systems at length in other publications and would be happy to share with you John Weddepohl. In the comments on Yoganonymous you can observe several fragile white egos taking offense at being critiqued with the same attitude that they frequently use to bastardize sacred non-western epistemic systems.The most aggrieved party was a guy who runs a studio called ‘Rockstar Yoga’ :)) For me it was a social experiment, one that worked admirably.
Pankaj Seth Some of the comments on the blog itself were extreme, as if you were saying that people should stop going to their yoga classes, when your targets of derision were quite specific and well chosen. Some people are taking it too personally, as if an attack on the likes of RockStarYoga were equivalent to chastising people for beginning wherever they happen to be. Perhaps people don’t know that you are enthusiastic about bringing the starter yoga set to prisons and other places, and then to help it grow from there. Certainly, at least I hope so, people cannot be FOR RockStarYoga, so I don’t understand why you’re being told you’re judgemental. Some things ought to be judged harshly. Well done!!!
John Cronen brilliant Vk /
this thread was amazing , and spot on true / heart emoticon
Vik Zutshi It would be nice if some people from this thread also commented on the actual article at Yoganonymous.
Eric Seaton The whole foundation of western math and music is from Pythagoras and Euclid. Greek Geniuses.. Who wrote these codes without a laboratory, microscopes or computers and yet gave us a knowledge few have equalled since. Indeed they did not use a linear ra…See More
John Weddepohl Love it Vik Zutshi – exactly why I shared your article and why I share your stance. Nothing wrong with pop yoga but a suggestion to anyone interested is to be curious about the meaning of words bandied about in teacher trainings. The biggest travesty is the current flood of interpretations of Patanjali’s sutras. Not about yoga at all and all to do with Self, the sutras and our western interpretation of yoga are becoming a tome to the ignorance of Self.
Pankaj Seth Matthew Remski’s ‘Threads of Yoga’ takes the cake. it is described on the Amazon page as “A new translation of the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali for our present paradigm.”—Here I comment on it to indicate its nature… “For example, Matthew Remski (who c…See More
Dharma, Karma and Moksha: The Timeless Truths
Baba Rampuri He’s not a Sanskrit scholar and admits it, but takes bits and pieces of other translations that either sound good, or fit his narrative. I wouldn’t call that “translation.” But maybe times have changed and standards have been lowered. I wasn’t at the meeting when the standards were lowered.
Pankaj Seth Matthew Remski’s book is self published, so he has avoided all meetings that might have pertained to standards. Due to criticism, of late he has moved away from advertising his workshops as ‘Yoga Philosophy’ and now says that he ‘leads discussions on…..See More
Gideon Enz Many so called “translators” don’t speak the language from which they are translating – take Coleman Barks for example. This is part of pop culture today.
Pankaj Seth Very glad to see you on this thread Gideon! … I mean the post as a whole, not just this part of it.
Baba Rampuri Pankaj – self publishing in a non-issue. My editor at Random House would have skewed much of my work to suit the taste and buying habits of the targeted audience if I would have allowed it.
Pankaj Seth True Baba, by itself it need not be the issue.
Gideon Enz Thanks for tagging me Pankaj, I would have missed it otherwise. Such rich material!
Yoga and Sanskrit
Eric Seaton Basically everything is wrong with yoga. If you speak English at a yoga class it’s wrong.. I mean there’s no comparison to Sanskrit because your not comparing apples and oranges, your comparing like apples and the earth. Sanskrit is living magic, it is a tuning of language that works there’s no way around it. I mean no one plays music out of tune. It isn’t a moral thing it’s just the way it is.
Ekabhumi Charles Ellik Generally this conversation is on point, but I beg to differ with this assertion. While Sanskrit is unequaled in precision and power, a well-trained teacher is able to transmit wordlessly or in other languages. There may be inappropriate, or out of alignment teachings, there may be complete misunderstandings, it’s true. I agree that Modern Postural Yoga is a mess, but ‘wrong’ is a contracted state of judgement that does not allow for the mystery to move. She is always moving, and she also moves through English.
Eric Seaton I agree , there’s opportunity to enhance speech in every language . But at the same time, sacred speech can’t be accessed through just English. To clean the toxins you need an actual thing that cleans it , not something that describes it. I mean baba exemplifies what were both saying. He speaks English in a down to earth yet sacred way. But he reached the point of his mirror being so clear, by polishing it with Ritual. Those shamans polish the mirror with ancient medicine. But English by itself doesn’t really polish too well.
Eric Seaton Also, I was being pretty sarcastic in an off hand manner, I wasn’t trying to use the analogy of dissection but the analogy of opposites.
Gideon Enz It is important to remember that most of the Sanskrit names for asanas have been made up in the last 80 or so years. Though the language is fantastic, it’s use in MPY is a very mixed message.
Todd Daniels your last sentence made me grin from ear to ear…
Eric Seaton And if there’s no Sanskrit and invoking spirits there’s no dhuni , no offerings to the fire… I mean this is like trying to start a car without the wheels engine or gasoline .. Forgive the dumbing down of the magic with a machine based metaphor
John Weddepohl Reality is never dumbed down no matter what we little gadgets decide to do with it – Hahahahahahaha – enjoy the changeless in all the changes.
Eric Seaton Once again it’s a baba thing, the machine based metaphor driving behind things. That’s the whole problem. It’s like when you mix colors in paint, the tiniest amount of black always dilutes the bright colors. Tiniest tiniest amount ruins that glorious shine. It doesn’t matter how much something is great if it’s driven by a machine based metaphor because it will always dilute it. The machine is the metaphor is he driving metaphor of western yoga when it should know the goddess as the driving metaphor. But it is difficult the machine is loud and we have to re tune into the Goddess
Pankaj Seth Well when Kali is translated as ‘Time’ (meaning defunct, absolute time) rather than ‘Temporality’, then we know we are caught in the machine metaphor. There is no mechanical time, been given up in physics for a 100 years. There is instead temporality, Karmic Temporality, Kali.
Eric Seaton Interesting point, I see that. Although I believe the machine is a spell cast by the demons. Sort of a revenge for when Vishnu disguised himself as a false guru and had all the demons stop worshipping shiva and the Vedas so shiva would destroy them. I think they made the commercialization of dharma as a spell to fool people from worshipping the spirits, in this chapter of mythology.
John Cronen hi eric : an aside note on black – black is added to white pigment to make it shinier smile emoticon i would compare it to a mirror or polar bear fur .. oddly if add more black to white pigment its brighter to a point .. then grey obviously .. but you mentioned colors , not white so … pranam /
* its a house painter trick , not well known , and also helps the white to cover better in say > one coat . works with high gloss and semi gloss whites , brilliant as the snow smile emoticon
when you ask them at the paint store and you know this
they know > your a pro heart emoticon add a shot of black please
Baba Rampuri Vik Zutshi & John Weddepohl – thank you for this conversation. Of course, this extends well beyond Yoga, as is apparent from Vik’s comments on minority voices and appropriation and repackaging of indigenous wisdom traditions. I differ from John only in that I don’t see pop yoga as benign, because of the damage I’ve seen it inflict on Indian culture. Fortunately we have people like Vik Zutshi who are able to articulate a view of pop yoga considering the dimension of culture. I would like to point out, however, that the privileging of the printed or even “written” text is already a gross distortion of Indian Tradition, as the text is necessarily oral, and absolutely requires commentary, not the techniques of modern western academic analysis. And even IF the modern analysis was indeed isolated from politics, which it isn’t (refer to my previous comments re weaponisation of the human sciences), the authority for their interpretation must lie with the indigenous traditions, themselves. Those who are outside the traditions should be at least familiar with indigenous systems of interpretation. I am fortunate to be old enough to have had gurus who had a vast number of texts memorised along with their commentaries, and were able to articulate them on the spot. I remember that among my many feelings when my last guru, Shri Kapil Puri Maharaj, left his body, was the sense that the Library of Alexandria had burned to the ground. Curiously, I have had a very similar conversation with a traditional Ayahuascaro friend from Columbia.
John Cronen wow / the library burned down, i feel you baba.
Eric Seaton Damn, that sounds like the shaolin. In the 1960s the red guard nearly burnt the entire temple down.
Eric Seaton Baba Rampuri
Eric Seaton Who continued Kapil Puris line ?
Baba Rampuri me
John Cronen / om namo narayanayah
Eric Seaton Wait so you continue two lines? Hari Puris and Kapil Puri ? Is that unusual??
Michelle Synnestvedt Eric Seaton….Hari Puri and Kapil Puri are the same line hence – Puri ..
Eric Seaton Hmm but there’s 52 lineages ? The 10 names , and within those 16 lines of Puri , 13 Giri, 4 saraswati etc. So are you saying its Hari Puri and Kapil Puri are the same line in the 16 ?
Eric Seaton Or have I misunderstood all together here
Baba Rampuri Eric Seaton yes, our line is known as Multani Marhi, one of the sixteen.
Eric Seaton Baba Rampuri, that is very interesting. I assumed, that only one Maharaj passed through each line. So are there even another set of lines within each main line ?
Eric Seaton Now I understand more, so Hari Puri, Amar Puri, and Kapil Puri were / are all in the Multani Marhi lineage ?
Baba Rampuri Within Multani Marhi, we have families.
Eric Seaton That’s so interesting. I recently got the Rumi version you recommend on the book list, but I noticed you don’t include Coleman Barks. What’s your traditions feeling on his translation ? Too biased to a modern construction ?
John Cronen while i watch this seemingly awesome conversation and have very little to add and very little interaction im thankful for one thing all along : im glad i already saw the light heart emoticon , its like im standing around ignored like in my own country .. its like im the invisible shunya after the light ~ / pranam
John Weddepohl I have always said, the more we attempt to take ownership of Yoga the more we find ourselves in the shadow of a huge Himalayan giant. Referring to popular yoga – I have a deep sense of compassion for those students sincerely seeking answers and authenticity who in spite of being so deeply committed to the practices of modern pop yoga only end up with a ‘Maybe. . . .’ or ‘Could be. . . . ‘ from their teachers who don’t know any better when it comes to its meaning. Yes ooops I am making a huge judgement. Baba, in referring to pop yoga as benign I think of it as innocent including its teachers. Like children, until we grow up, we have no way of knowing better. That the teachers themselves are innocently putting everybody on a trip and another orbit is because they themselves too are innocent and know no better. But this doesn’t mean we should all stop enquiring and being curious and enthusiastic. Hence I refer to there being nothing wrong with pop yoga. The answer to ones enquiry and end of ones curiosity must also be available. This is of course the only issue. At this point everybody runs for the hills because Indian teachers who taught in the west have f…..d it. As a student I must have faith but that faith does not mean blind faith. It means faith pending discovery. Om
Ownership and Yoga
Baba Rampuri The very concept of “ownership” contradicts Yoga, having more to do with capitalism. The students & teachers of pop yoga are among those who have the greatest potential for raising consciousness in their own lives and collectives lives, and yet the corporate model commodifies this potential maintaining consumers, clients. Very sincere people wishing to do good and right things, and make the world a better place, are being deceived. It’s not a discussion of “right to consume,” people consume what they want. Consumption does have its trajectories and results, however. When an entire population innocently consumes the entertainment of the Mass Media News, for example, ghastly things may be done in their name with their mindless consent.
Like · Reply · 10 · May 22 at 3:16pm
John Weddepohl ‘The very concept of “ownership” contradicts Yoga’ – exactly my reason for referring to Himalayan giant.
Todd Daniels You guys should be on the yoga teachers page. I think I am hated there..this is a good talk, a somewhat rare thing these days. Thank you
Todd Daniels I think I may try the old ayahuasca thing in peru this fall……..maybe
Baba Rampuri Todd, why would you do that? I’m curious.
Todd Daniels Curiousity.
Todd Daniels I did Iboga and just shit out of both ends for 2 days.
Todd Daniels If you have any other suggestions I am game…
Baba Rampuri My comments would be to focus on shaman and his/her work rather than any substance. The main reason do do something like this is for healing – when more readily available methods have failed.
Todd Daniels I looked into it extensively. I have some things that could use some healing for sure. I found a guy that is legit as he has been doing it from his home since he was very young. He comes from a lineage of shamans. You live at his house, not some resort… I will stay for some time just to dig a bit deeper. The substance is secondary..the shaman is the one the locals go to, like the community hospital…he also does not charge tourist prices.
John Weddepohl Todd – Not interested in it my self. (Ayahuwaska) – I dropped a close friend off once at an Ayahuwaska date he had with professor from Brazil – (The doctor who spits amrit/soma into your mouth). I told him I wanted to hear all about it. He was an avid grower and experimenter with exotic peyote and stuff. He explained the process of how the plant neurotransmitters replace the brains neurotransmitters so youre basically seeing through the eyes of a plant. While I went off to visit the valley of the sangomas (shamans) they call Lamaoutze in Ficksburg South Africa, he went off to his 13 hour tea party. When he returned his verdict it was that he felt (as many do) that he was delving into places he didn’t belong and encountered some alien looking guys, who asked him what he was doing there; that we’d long since moved on from that form of evolution and that he did not really feel welcome there.
Todd Daniels Ya, I could see that happening…I am not very attached to the outcome,just curious.. if it’s not for me then i bail..it’s the experiences in life that make it interesting.
Todd Daniels I might not even go, i do things on the fly
John Weddepohl ja – best way to travel. Likewise.
Todd Daniels Makes life more interesting.
John Cronen finally a thread that i feel wiser for having read : thanks all /